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March 11, 2025
The U.S. Department of Energy’s (DOE’s) Energy Earthshots Initiative set technical and financial goals for key clean energy challenges, growing to a portfolio of eight “shots” for technologies like hydrogen, long duration storage, and more. Today’s episode features one of the leaders who helped catapult the Earthshots at DOE, Dr. Geraldine “Geri” Richmond, who served as the agency’s Under Secretary for Science and Innovation during the Biden-Harris Administration. Geri sat down with co-hosts Daniel and Alison to share her vision for public-private partnerships to continue advancing the Earthshots, and her insights on women in STEM and international scientific cooperation.
Show notes:
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Episode Transcript:
Daniel Bresette: Hello and welcome to The Climate Conversation. I'm Dan Bresette, president of the Environmental and Energy Study Institute, and I'm here today with my co-host, Alison Davis. Hey, Alison!
Alison Davis: Hey, Dan. I feel so lucky to be here with you for today's episode, because we have a really fantastic guest joining us to talk about her trailblazing career on the cutting edge of science, technology, and innovation.
Dan: A great guest who will add a little extra chemistry to the podcast this week. You know, Alison, we talk about this internally a lot. Our colleagues Anna, Molly, Nicole and I are doing a lot of welcome-to-Congress outreach to House and Senate offices across the entire political spectrum. This is a very important time of year for us to reconnect with our old friends, to meet new friends, and to learn about what we can be doing at EESI, to be an even better friend to the average Congressional staff person by providing them with timely, relevant, practical and accessible educational resources about the widest possible range of climate change topics. We hear a lot of interest in a lot of issues, and one thing that almost everybody wants to talk about are the latest, the greatest, the coolest, and the most innovative clean energy technologies. As it happens, we have a lot of briefings, articles, and podcast episodes about clean energy innovations and hydrogen, long duration, energy storage, carbon dioxide removal, geothermal and more.
Alison: In fact, one of our most popular briefings of the last year was the one that put the spotlight on DOE’s Energy Earthshots initiative. DOE Deputy Secretary David Turk provided keynote remarks at that briefing, which we will link to in the show notes, so you should be sure to check that out. We were also pleased to feature comments from Representative Frank Lucas, who represents the third district of Oklahoma, and who really likes advanced geothermal, and Representative Deborah Ross, who hails from the second district of North Carolina, and who really likes floating offshore wind. You might have guessed by now that advanced geothermal and floating offshore wind are two of the eight energy Energy Earthshots. The others are hydrogen, long duration storage, carbon dioxide removal, industrial heat, clean fuels and products, and affordable home energy. DOE published a detailed update just a couple of months ago, titled, Charting the Path: An Energy Earthshots Initiative Report, to highlight the diversity of the Earthshots portfolio and assess progress for each technology. From what I have heard from you, Anna, Molly, and Nicole, there's a lot of overlap between the clean energy technologies most interesting to Congressional staff and the Energy Earthshots.
Dan: There really is. It's almost perfect overlap. And that brings us to today. One thing the Deputy Secretary Turk talked about at that briefing was the need for Energy Earthshots to bridge the public and private sectors made possible by strong partnerships, creative entrepreneurs, and skilled workers. To help us understand where the innovation stimulated by the energy Earthshots stand today is our guest, Dr. Geraldine, or Geri, Richmond. Geri served as DOE’s Under Secretary for Science and Innovation during the Biden-Harris Administration. In this role, she oversaw DOE's Office of Science, which includes the national laboratories and their facilities. And after leaving DOE at the end of the previous administration, Geri joined the University of Oregon, where she continues to teach chemistry and holds the Presidential Chair in Science.
Alison: Geri's research focuses on the use of laser-based and computational methods to understand the molecular absorption structure and dynamics at liquid surfaces that have relevance to environmental and technological interests. Okay, so if I understand this correctly—she can correct me if I'm wrong—to put it simply, she studies how the surface of water interacts with other substances, which is useful for things like cleaning up oil spills. She has earned numerous awards, and this includes the National Medal of Science in 2016. Geri is also the founding director of the Committee on the Advancement of Women Chemists (COACh), a grassroots organization that has supported career advancement for over 25,000 women scientists and engineers in the United States and around the world. She received her B.S. in chemistry from Kansas State University and her Ph.D. in physical chemistry at the University of California, Berkeley. Geri, welcome to the show!
Dr. Geri Richmond: Ah, it's great to be here. It's just great to be here. Thank you for the invitation.
Dan: Well, thank you for accepting it. We're super excited to talk with you about all sorts of things. And I think to start, maybe we'll take a little trip back to 2021, which is when the Energy Earthshots Initiative was launched at the Department of Energy. And two of those initiatives that got a lot of attention early on—because they were launched fairly early on—were hydrogen, which was the first Energy Earthshot, and then that was followed by long duration energy storage. And I'm curious, in your opinion, what is it about these technologies that just hold so much promise? And what were these two Energy Earthshots able to unlock, in terms of technological development and public-private partnerships?
Geri: Well, I think these two are ones that people really can hone in on and think in bigger terms than they might have before. So these particular two initiatives really have gotten attention because they have new kind of technologies that we still have so much to do to get there. But let me just start out by saying that these Earthshots, in general, these eight Earthshots, are big, hairy, audacious goals that can change the world. And so while some of these Earthshots have been really first to get out of the gate, I believe that all of these Earthshots are equally important. With that said, hydrogen and long duration storage really are solving problems that may unlock the potential for a lot of different areas. So let me just sort of focus on hydrogen first. So for this little, tiny molecule—it's two atoms—it represents a lot of power. It has bonds that are really strong. And so the U.S. National Hydrogen Strategy and the roadmap really shows how if we could achieve the hydrogen shot and our other hydrogen targets, we can reduce the costs and reduce emissions in the future in applications as diverse as heat processing of steel and cement manufacturing, which could support the Industrial Heat shot and fuel cells for rail, maritime and aviation, which could support the clean fuels and products shot. In my role as Under Secretary, I actually got to go to a steel factory that's using hydrogen for their heating process. So that's really game-changing. Now let's shift over to the long duration storage shot, which is really “big batteries,” that can hold a lot of juice for a long time, and these can provide a similarly unlocking ability for clean energy. This shot targets reducing the cost of technologies proving 10 hours or longer energy storage by 90% by 2030 that's the goal. The whole goal of these Earthshots is to be able to get them far enough along in the basic science, the applied science, and demonstration to make it so that companies will take them on commercially. They can afford to do it because they see they can make a profit. So renewable electricity, such as with solar and wind, of course, they are variable power, and so this means they can't serve 100% of the electricity demand in a cost-effective way. So this long duration storage can really increase local control of power systems, and then also build resilience in our rural communities that are much, maybe less stable, or even without access to the grid. So this also supports then the affordable home energy shot, which targets reducing home energy costs and increasing America's 50 million affordable homes that rely on electricity. Let me just say, as a personal aside again, with this, being able to see what long duration storage can have in a remote community in Alaska is phenomenal. In a village where you have, you have the generator going with oil, 24/7 spewing out fumes, noisy as hell. Oh, it's just amazing. And then you put an energy storage unit in there, and they have, at the time, I went there a couple years ago that gave them 10 hours a day of quiet. So I just get so excited about both of these when I actually go in and see what a difference it makes in people's lives.
Dan: It may be hard, Geri, to pick among these eight, but do you have a favorite of the Energy Earthshots?
Geri: I did have one when we were talking about, yeah, especially the affordable home energy shot, because that's really my favorite and—about, you know, reducing the cost to decarbonize households. Here's the statistics: nearly one in four households nationwide experience high energy burdens. As a result, more than 20% fell behind in their energy bills in 2023.
Alison: So there's an opportunity in this moment for industry partners to take a more leading role in keeping up the momentum of the Earthshots. How have you seen the private sector sort of take the reins to take the next step and advance the technologies of the Earthshots forward?
Geri: Well, that's a great question, because it goes back to what I was talking about before, where you've got to be able to get it to the point at which companies will take it on and—to de-risk it, basically. And so companies going from the research to the application to actually deploying it, sometimes when you get in the deployment state, you get problems, and you got to go back and do more research. And the companies are going to have to do that once they get to that point with the help of agencies like the Department. But the whole point of these Earthshots is an all-hands-on-deck—and that means companies, too—to achieve our goals. And although we see DOE stepping back from its role as clean energy leader under this administration, what we've seen in the private sector really gives me hope. Just in the last two years alone, America has invested more than half a trillion dollars in clean energy technologies and infrastructure, and the vast majority of this spending has been by American businesses and consumers. And what’s so exciting about this is for every $1 invested by the federal government, the private sector has invested $6. So it's a huge win. And you know now that we have released the Charting the Path report, which we did in January, which is a call to action to the nation's rising researchers and entrepreneurs to jump in. Also, I think it gives for these biggest challenges. I think it also gives a good way forward. And this report really brings together dozens of DOE and national laboratories, reports and vision documents. So I look at this Charting the Path, as I actually am advertising it to teachers too, because it's got so much good stuff in it to be able to teach new researchers and students about what's out there and what we can do.
Alison: In your career, both as a leader at DOE and also as an academic researcher and professor, Ihat strategies have you picked up for communicating about complex energy technologies like the Earthshots with different types of audiences?
Geri: You know, it doesn't hurt to have taught introductory chemistry for 20 years. That really helps you to connect with people that want to learn stuff and people that really don't want to learn stuff. They just want the bottom line. And so I think what I've picked up that you really have to when you're talking to people, you first have to understand what your audience is, what your audience knows, and it could be a range of different capabilities in terms of understanding what you're going to talk about. But that range, I think, also is a lot of fun too, because you've got to splice in things that hit different audiences, different parts of them. But that's not so different than teaching in a university classroom either, except that the people generally, when you're talking about advances in clean energy, you really have to also convince them that what you're talking about is important to their lives. And even though I tried to do that in teaching, sometimes just teaching basic chemistry principles isn't quite so easy. In this case, it's easier, and so it's always a matter of simplifying concepts and relating them to people's lives. Once people can think about how they how, what these advances are going to do, in terms of their energy bills, in terms of their ability to even cook, their ability to maybe think of buying an EV car, and then you can sort of back up a little bit and say, This is how far we've gotten, but we've got to do a little bit more in another area. So it's really about going to the audience and understanding what they want to know and also what their capabilities are.
Alison: I always get excited when we have a guest who's a teacher, because they're always so good at explaining these things. So in addition to your contributions as a scientist and a government leader, you're also well-known for your advocacy for the participation of women in STEM especially through COACh the Committee on the Advancement of Women Chemists. How do you approach mentoring young women in your field?
Geri: Well, that's been a lifelong passion of mine. When I was back in graduate school, there were very few of us women at Berkeley getting our PhDs at all, and I realized that I really enjoyed getting those few women together, because we were a good support system for one another. And in part that led to my first faculty position at Bryn Mawr College, which is a women's college and was there for a number of years before I went five years before I went on to the University of Oregon. But even as I advanced up through my career, I realized that women, extraordinarily smart, extraordinary bright women, were just not getting the recognition that their male colleagues were. And that was really the start of COACh is to help women in a mentorship manner, but also in a skills-teaching manner of what it really takes to get ahead and not just get ahead, but be successful and be satisfied that the values that you're following are your own values, without feeling like you needed to adopt somebody else's value system in order to succeed. And it's also an issue of confidence building, and once you provide women's skills on better communication, negotiation, leadership, things that they may not have been mentored on. In fact, the statistics show that the women tend to be mentored less than their male colleagues. That there's a sort of a power that gets built in to them that allows them to have the confidence in order to go in new directions. And I think that's as important for men these days as it is for women and we and that's why many of the things that we do in mentoring is for men and women. But we also have a soft spot in our heart for helping the women. And you know, when we look back at the research that we've done on the impact of these women for 20 years, it's just is amazing that that little bit of a tweak in terms of mentorship has been important to get them to understand that a mentor now that they can be mentors, that a mentor is a coach, a mentor is your cheerleader, advocate for you, and also the long-term mentor. And it makes it a little bit easier for those that are shy to be able to ask somebody, will you be my long term mentor? It's like, will you marry me? Instead, they can have somebody coach them for a little while and see if that turns out further. Let me just say one last thing, because we've worked in a couple of dozen different developing countries, and mentorship is even more important in many of those countries, because women really are still left behind. But in those countries, because there's a cultural difference than in the United States, we also have to understand the culture that's in those countries and on the continent of Africa, even each of those countries is different culture, and you have to understand that and work with them so that they don't feel like what you're teaching them is something that comes from so afar that it can't connect with them.
Dan: That's great. And I mean, I don't have that experience because I'm not a woman or a chemist, but I know that as someone who has benefited from, you know, even just, even just passive mentorship, right? Like mentorship doesn't have to be like a formal position where, you know, you get a certificate, but I think back of people who you know, who spent extra time with me to help me learn things, or teach me lessons, or help me through a job search, or something like that. Like mentorship is great in any form that it takes, because it often takes the mentor to encourage the mentee to know that this is a thing, and then it's okay to ask for it and it's okay to receive it. And you know, there's, I see that sometimes with our interns, where they don't realize, especially in DC, which is all you know, built on relationships and networking, that it's just a natural part of life. It's nothing special. But if you don't learn that early on, unfortunately, too many years can go by before you know, where you were kind of missing out a little bit.
Geri: Yeah now that's really true, and it changes as you go up the career path too. And I think the one thing with mentorship for again, both men and women, and our activities teach both the mentors and the mentees. And that is that as scientists or someone who, for example, give me a problem and I'll solve it. Well, a mentor is not to solve the mentee’s problems, it's to get the mentee to solve the problem. And the mentees need to understand that their role is to ask for help of the mentor, or also give them what they're most interested in, so that they don't sit in front of the mentor and say, “Okay, now fill me with your wisdom.” So a lot going on there. Really important.
Dan: It is interesting. Well, we covered a lot of great ground, and this has been so nice to talk with you. You mentioned something a moment ago that I'd like to come back to. You mentioned international work. And so in your background, your professional background, includes some work that you did with the State Department in the role of U.S. Science Envoy to Cambodia, Laos, Thailand and Vietnam. And this was something between 2015 and 2016. What have you learned through your international experience about U.S. leadership in science? And how have those lessons informed your progression through your own career?
Geri: Well, boy, that's such an important question and such a timely question too. You know, during that time, working closely, in many respects, with the governments in those countries too. There was always a sense of the United States just has so much, so many good people, so much science and technology, so many phenomenal things leading the world in science and technologies. People are very envious of those that are in the United States because of the system that we have, the infrastructure that we have, and so it's just been incredible for them to get a perspective of what they see and their and especially the young people Vietnam, for example, what the young people aspire to be, because they see what scientists in the U.S. can be. I think, in the African countries, the same thing, the same thing. How can I get a fellowship in the U.S.? And again, same for the Lower Mekong River countries too. How can I get a fellowship there? How can I be connected? How can I learn what things should I do in my country to be able to learn the kind of things that they do? So we are the envy we have been the envy of the world. And I hope that we can continue to do that. But I also want to say, when we go, we turn it back to energy. During those years, it would have been. Those years of going to many of these countries, 2010 2820 10, and seeing the ravages of climate change already in those countries. And yet here in the United States, we could buy out of it. I mean, most people, not everybody, but we could turn up the air conditioner a little higher. We could get a little more water. We could pay a little more water, whatever. In those countries, the Savannahs drying out in Africa, becoming barren, and in India, where the rains were no longer predictable, in Vietnam, where the waters rising in the ocean, made me as much of anything aware of the climate issues, and that's the reason I took the Under Secretary position.
Dan: It sounds like a super rewarding experience as part of a super rewarding career. And Geri, it's been so nice for you to join Alison and me today and talk a little bit about Earthshots and talk a little bit about your other professional experiences and your commitment to mentorship. So thank you so much for joining us on the podcast.
Geri: Well thank you very much. It's a treat. It's been fun.
Dan: Alison, that was a great episode. So nice to meet Geri and talk with her a little bit. Certainly followed her work and her staff's work while they were at DOE and it's super exciting. You know, I think it's always really impressive when people who are successful in their profession, sort of try to make time for people who eventually will take their place in their profession. And I think Geri's thoughts on mentorship with, in her case, aspiring women chemists and aspiring women scientists in the U.S. and abroad, that's great. Having someone with a commitment to public service in a position that she had, is a great thing. Having someone that also has a commitment to the next generation and helping people find their place in positions that allow them to contribute to public service, I just think is so great. Just lastly, you know her thoughts about de-risking the technologies, the half a trillion dollars of investment. You know, this is something that we talk about a lot at this time, which is, you know, what are the odds these investments will continue? And there's a lot of uncertainty in the world right now about where those stand. But you know, in most, if not all of these cases, with the Energy Earthshots, these are good things that people will want more of, and seeing the private sector continue to invest and make commitments, because it makes good business sense, and it makes good business sense because of the investments that DOE and the labs and others have made. Just such a great topic and something that keeps us closer to the right path, which is really important, especially important right now.
Alison: We were talking about this a little bit earlier, but I didn't intend for the timing to be so perfect, but it really just worked out that during Women's History Month, we managed to have a podcast guest who is the most badass woman. If I'm allowed to say bad ass on this podcast, maybe I'll cut that out later, but she really is. I couldn't have hoped for a better guest during Women's History Month. And I really appreciated her emphasis on staying true to your own values and true to your culture. And I loved hearing her perspective about how that's going to be important for anybody in their careers, but especially for women in STEM and especially for women in STEM from other countries, developing countries. So yeah, it really just showed through in the way that she talked about everything, how passionate she really is about mentoring other scientists, other women, and really helping people through her work in clean energy at DOE and now at the University of Oregon. If you want to learn more about EESI’s work on clean energy technologies, head to our website at eesi.org. Also, follow us on social media @eesionline—don’t forget Bluesky—for all of our recent updates. The Climate Conversation is published as a supplement to our bi-weekly newsletter, Climate Change Solutions. Go to eesi.org/signup to subscribe. Thanks for joining us and see you next time!
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