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February 13, 2024
Welcome to Season 7 of The Climate Conversation podcast! When it comes to clean transportation, the journey is the destination. Today’s episode covers GRID Alternatives, a nonprofit advancing access to renewable energy sources, that was brought on to California’s Communities in Charge project to ensure the equitable deployment of Level Two charging stations for electric vehicles. Dan and Alison sit down with Norah Kyassa, an outreach coordinator with GRID Alternative’s Clean Mobility Program, to talk about why clean transportation is so crucial for environmental justice.
Show notes:
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About this Podcast:
With all the depressing climate news out there, it’s sometimes hard to see progress. The Climate Conversation cuts through the noise and presents you with relevant climate change solutions happening on the Hill and in communities around the United States.
Twice a month, join Environmental and Energy Study Institute staff members as they interview environmental, energy, and policy experts on practical, on-the-ground work that communities, companies, and governments are doing to address climate change.
Whether you want to learn more about the solutions to climate change, are an expert in environmental issues, or are a policy professional, this podcast is for you.
Episode Transcript:
Dan Bresette: Hello, Happy New Year to everyone and welcome to the seventh season of The Climate Conversation. I'm Dan Bresette, president of the Environmental and Energy Study Institute. And with me is my co-host, Alison Davis. Hey, Alison, how's it going?
Alison Davis: Hi, Dan. I’ve really missed doing these podcast interviews and I'm so happy to be back for another season. We have some fantastic episodes lined up for our listeners, starting today. And we're going to look at how clean transportation is becoming more accessible specifically in California.
Dan: That’s right, and mobility and transportation are big topics at EESI. We cover them in our policy education work, we cover them in our technical assistance work, helping rural utilities make electric vehicle charging infrastructure available to their customers. And if you're a subscriber to our bi-weekly newsletter, Climate Change Solutions, and really everyone should be a subscriber to our bi-weekly newsletter, Climate Change Solutions, there's not really an acceptable excuse not to be. But for subscribers, you might remember our article from November about the Communities in Charge project run by the California Energy Commission's clean transportation program. And that program is supported in partnership by GRID Alternatives. Communities in Charge is a light duty electric vehicle or EV, as we'll call them, charging incentive project focused on the deployment of Level Two charging stations.
Alison: Charging stations are ideally placed in areas where cars will be parked for longer periods of time, like at home, for example, and in California chargers in residential settings can even provide consumers with additional income through the Low Carbon Fuel Standard. GRID Alternatives is a nonprofit advancing access to renewable energy sources, and they were brought on to Communities in Charge to ensure equitable implementation.
Dan: Charging a car with electricity is much cheaper than filling it with gasoline. The Department of Energy estimates that EV owners can save up to $14,500 on fuel costs over a 15 year period. The lower cost of ownership should make EVs more accessible, but higher upfront costs and gaps in charging infrastructure remain significant obstacles for many consumers. As of July 2023, the average cost of a new EV was about $53,000 compared to about $48,000 for a gas powered vehicle.
Alison: The Inflation Reduction Act (P.L. 117-169) offers clean vehicle tax credits of up to $7,500 for EVs that meet certain criteria, which is helping to make the EV market more competitive. However, communities that are not wealthy or majority-white may be hard-pressed to find a convenient charging station. Significant progress has been made thanks to a $2.5 billion grant program for neighborhood chargers included in the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law (P.L. 117-58), but there is a long way to go to achieve an equitable charging network nationwide.
Dan: Our guest today is Norah Kyassa, an outreach coordinator with GRID Alternatives’ Clean Mobility Program. Her primary focus is raising community awareness and driving engagement with California's Communities in Charge Block Grant Incentive program. Last year, Norah was kind enough to contribute to an EESI article on the Communities in Charge program, and we're thrilled to have her back today. Norah, welcome to the podcast.
Norah Kyassa: Thank you so much. I'm so happy to be here.
Dan: Well, it's really great, and like I said, thanks again for helping us with that article, and we will be sure to link to it in the show notes. I encourage everyone to check it out. But for today's conversation, I'd like to ask you a couple questions. But before we get into sort of the specific work that you've done with charging stations, I'd like to ask you about why GRID Alternatives focuses on reducing emissions in the transportation sector and what needs to happen to accelerate widespread EV adoption.
Norah: Yeah, of course, it's a great first question and kind of encapsulates our mission. So according to research conducted by the California Energy Commission, more than half of the state's greenhouse gas emissions and 80% of nitrogen oxide pollution comes from vehicle emission. So to GRID this is even more concerning when these emissions are kind of placed in the context of socioeconomic geographies because those residing in low income and disadvantaged communities are disproportionately exposed to this pollution and the adverse health effects from this exposure. So at GRID, our mission is to build community powered solutions to advance economic and environmental justice and clean transportation, and mobility is really a vital part of that work. And to kind of answer your second question of what needs to happen to kind of accelerate this adoption, I would say that it would require equitable incentives and funding programs administered through the state for the installation of these chargers in disinvested communities. I would then say community outreach and education on electrical vehicles and its charging equipment followed by transparent channels of communication between the state and community leaders. And finally, infrastructure upgrades for sure.
Alison: And turning now to your work with Communities in Charge, applications for the latest funding wave of that just closed pretty recently, I'm wondering what has been the community response to the program, including any new ideas that you're seeing coming through the applications.
Norah: So the communities we serve through outreach and education have always expressed a significant interest in EV charger, adoption and installation, both for the economic and pollution reduction benefits it offers the community. So not only this, but as you mentioned earlier, many disadvantaged communities really struggled to find accessible charging stations. So, having a program that provides an opportunity to integrate such a resource, where these individuals live and gather has always been an incredibly strong feature of the Communities in Charge program, I would say. As for fielding new ideas as the equity partner on the program, this is always a significant interest to GRID, and we provide opportunities for community leaders to provide feedback and dialogue on the program design. So I would say that, based on feedback from both past applicants and community based organizations, we've seen expressed interest in providing either additional funding support for priority population communities, so priority population communities, our low income/disadvantaged communities, tribal and rural areas, and we've seen encouragement for additional funding support through increasing the maximum rebate of the program to 100% of eligible costs for these communities. Another suggestion would be to reevaluate the current application scoring system to better support equity applicants and receiving an award. And then finally, I would say, a strong point has been engaging community based organizations and leadership before significant changes to the program to kind of assess the potential impact to disinvested communities. Like I mentioned earlier, we strongly welcome community feedback. And folks are always more than welcome to get in touch with us through our [email protected] email for any questions or concerns.
Alison: So once an application is submitted, what is that process kind of look like? And what is the timeline that applicants can expect?
Norah: Yeah, that's a really great question. So the goal of the program design of Communities in Charge is to install chargers, like I mentioned earlier, where communities live and gather, and this is really because level two chargers are chargers that are most suitable for destination charging. So as this is an equity focused program, project location, you know, was a significant metric during the program design process. So from this Communities in Charge has designated eight different commercial site types called “Community Connections” that would best suit this charter installation. So those include nonprofits, multifamily housing, congregations, tribes, local governments, schools and workplaces. GRID then conducts outreach to the property owners of these site types. But as we are an equity partner, again, we really do try and focus our outreach, specifically in priority population communities. So to kind of answer your second question, I wouldn't necessarily say there are conditions taken into consideration in determining kind of what specific Community Connection will be contacted over another because our goal is really to ensure that we work as a resource in these communities so that they are educated on Communities in Charge, and really general electric vehicles and their supply equipment so that they're prepared to utilize these funds through Communities in Charge to support a charger installation project. I would say though, that certain challenges unique to an area may impact an interested applicant’s installation process. And so from this, we determine how GRID can best support that specific applicant. So for example, we've seen communities that may have a lack of contractor availability to install the chargers. This is especially something we've seen be a barrier in rural areas, or you know, a lot of property sites may require significant electrical infrastructure upgrades. So to address these barriers, we utilize community based partnerships, direct education and marketing, outreach and technical assistance.
Alison: That sounds great because I have yet to live in an apartment building that has charging stations starting to see them more, but just not my not in my neck of the woods quite yet. But when it comes to electrification upgrades, whether we're talking about for your car, or maybe for your home appliances, the electricity is only as clean as what's powering the grid. So can you tell us a little bit about how the Clean Mobility Program incorporates solar power into its EV projects.
Norah: That's a great point and kind of at the root again, of GRID’s foundation. So we have our foundation in the solar industry, we've been providing no cost solar installation to eligible customers since 2001. So it's in the name, we're always looking for alternatives to the grid. So for Communities in Charge EV projects in particular Cal Start, which is the administer of the program, has an eligible technology page on the Communities in Charge website. And interested applicants can search through the list for technology powered specifically by clean energy. If an applicant has questions pertaining to solar powered electric vehicle supply equipment, we are more than happy at GRID to answer their questions and concerns. We also conduct research on electric service vehicle providers powered through clean energy, and we encourage them if they haven't already done so to apply to have their technology on the eligibility list as well.
Dan: California has garnered national attention with its Advanced Clean Cars II regulations, and those regulations require that all new car sales as of 2035 must be zero emission vehicles. What impact has that had on GRID Alternatives and the clean mobility program?
Norah: Right. That's a really great question. So I would say that the regulations allow for the team to analyze the ways in which our outreach and education can and should be most impactful and effective. So that by the time these regulations are put into place, the chargers installed will have met the demand of electric vehicle supply equipment needed in 2035. And most importantly, that disinvested communities are quote unquote, left behind through the school transition to electrification. So, we want individuals in the communities we serve to feel both empowered and prepared in their electrification choices. Especially because, you know, the landscape of electrification continues to really rapidly evolve both statewide and nationally.
Dan: California has, for a long time, had a reputation of kind of setting the standard, literally and figuratively, when it comes to clean energy. They're out in front on building energy codes, they're out in front of compliance and equipment standards. And the California Energy Commission seems really, really committed to sort of keeping California sort of in that leadership spot. And that applies now to policies regarding electric vehicles and clean transportation. California's policies are far more ambitious than what we have at the federal level. What lessons could federal policymakers, people in EESI’s main audience, especially Congress, learn from California's transportation policies?
Norah: Right. And I think that's a really impactful question and both of the moment so I would say that it's critical that federal policymakers understand that significant attention must be granted not should be but must be granted to these disinvested and low income populations. And this is an arena that California itself continues to develop within our own transportation policies. I think individuals are excited and willing to transition to electrification. But if climate mitigation strategies and education continued to be implemented and lauded as a luxury accessible to only those wealthy enough to afford these resources, then really a high portion of the nation's population will continue to feel both disconnected and distrustful of climate change and these policies that are necessary to combat it. 91% of households in this country have access to at least one vehicle. And so 91% of households really face the risk of being exposed to this pollution and severe climate events, and this is due to transportation emission. So I think California has done an incredible job of recognizing the gravity of this. And we do this through the continuing of strategic equity based sustainability programs and allowing organizations like GRID Alternatives to work with priority populations to truly build out community based solutions. I think Colorado has done a really good job of kind of following in California's tracks towards sustainability policy. I would also say that, I think in terms of states that could learn, I think states that might be at most risk for climate adverse effects that need climate mitigation, the most maybe states like Florida, we're seeing a lot of climate adverse situations occurring in those states. So I think definitely any states that are along the coast that might kind of experience these severe weather events, due to transportation emissions, I think are extremely important to kind of follow in California's footsteps as well as any states where there are a lot of rural communities. Having access to a reliable electrical grid is really tantamount, I think, in those communities and states as well.
Dan: Well, Norah, thank you so much for joining us on the podcast this week. And best of luck getting these chargers into communities that really, really need them. It's really important for the transportation sector, decarbonisation effort in general, if everyone has the access to these kinds of chargers that they, that they really need and really deserve.
Norah: Right, thank you both so much. I was so happy to be on here, it was a pleasure to talk a little bit more about GRID Alternatives and our clean transportation. So yeah, thank you guys so much.
Dan: Alison, it was really, really fun to talk with Norah, about her work with the Communities in Charge program, the idea of transitioning, you know, basically the infrastructure that is necessary to support light duty vehicles. It's an enormous challenge, something that we've covered in briefings. We did a briefing, I guess, about two years ago at this point, about building out electric vehicle charging infrastructure. And that was part of our briefing series that took a look at kind of big swings, like big technological and engineering challenges that we'll have to overcome. And, you know, if you think about how many gas stations there are out there, how many gas pumps there are out there, how going to the gas station is sort of part of daily life for so many people, you know, it is kind of a big undertaking to think about replacing, or at least adding in the near term, electric vehicle chargers and accommodating how people actually move around, and how they feel about filling their cars with gas, providing all of the infrastructure that's necessary to make that change to electricity. And I'm really, really happy to hear from Norah, about their work, because it is really, really important. There was just an article in the Washington Post the other day talking about, you know, how do we do this? How do you live in a building that doesn't have this kind of infrastructure? Or if you live in a place that doesn't have indoor parking? Or you're dependent on on street parking? How do you really do that? These are big, big questions. And one thing that we say a lot at EESI is, you know, in order for the transition to a decarbonized, clean energy economy to happen, it has to happen for everyone, it can't happen for some people and not for others. And we also say that this transition should be about trading up, not trading off. And so how do we ensure that people who who need this kind of infrastructure, to go to work, to move around all of that, that goes along with, you know, being able to fuel our vehicles, it's really, really important that these opportunities are available to everyone, not just in communities that are first movers, or that have extra resources or extra capacity to to get these charges installed? So kudos to Norah and everyone in GRID Alternatives for all of this really, really great work!
Alison: That's absolutely right. It's so important not to lose sight of the equity piece of this clean energy puzzle. And I sort of have a love hate relationship. I think with electric vehicles, even though the technology is so exciting, I get frustrated sometimes. Because EVs have largely been regarded as a luxury mostly for high income people. But that doesn't mean that there is an interest or demand from a variety of different communities with different socioeconomic statuses. And so it's important that anybody who is interested in driving an electric vehicle and helping with the clean energy transition has the opportunity to participate in that.
Dan: Couldn’t agree more Alison and wanted to wrap up the episode with a quick plug for EESI is Beneficial Electrification Toolkit. You can find that online at betoolkit.org. Really a resource designed for utility program managers and stakeholders in rural areas looking to work with utilities to make beneficial electrification programs possible, including beneficial electrification programs that take advantage of inclusive on bill financing. But even for people who are not real utilities, or real utility stakeholders, there's a lot of really great resources in the toolkit that go into a lot of detail, not just about the vehicles but also some of the program design elements that really have to be taken into consideration as programs, even programs like this one are rolled out, so definitely encourage everyone to take a look at that.
Alison: If you want to learn more about EESI’s work on transportation, head to our website at eesi.org. Also, follow us on social media @eesionline for all of our recent updates. The Climate Conversation is published as a supplement to our biweekly newsletter, Climate Change Solutions. Go to eesi.org/signup to subscribe. Thanks for joining us and see you next time!
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